1.2 Coldstart AGAIN

[ewandougie]

Hey

I am a bit annoyed, Im sure all the Brits here are well aware with the current weather in Cumbria (Torrential rain, floods, -3 degress the other day) but when Kitt Kat was in for a service, I asked about cold starting and they said the problem was fixed with an ECU upgrade or something, and guess what, started him, and the same reluctance to start, the same worring noise from the starter motor , they didnt fix the problem, has anyone had a recurrence of the problem?

[VilleV]

Mine did this today morning. -21c outside, the car was heated for about an hour and still it took three attempts to get it started. After it started I drove for a couple of kms and into a warm garage. Strangely the outside temperature display stayed in -21 even tho the car was inside for more than 5 minutes!!! Plus the idle was very uneven, revs kept going down so that the car almost stalled and then came back up again!!!!

Anybody know what might have caused this? After the car was inside for about 15 minutes averything seemed to work ok again. Could ice somewhere have caused this kind of behavior?:confused:

[ewandougie]

Mine did this today morning. -21c outside, the car was heated for about an hour and still it took three attempts to get it started. After it started I drove for a couple of kms and into a warm garage. Strangely the outside temperature display stayed in -21 even tho the car was inside for more than 5 minutes!!! Plus the idle was very uneven, revs kept going down so that the car almost stalled and then came back up again!!!!

Anybody know what might have caused this? After the car was inside for about 15 minutes averything seemed to work ok again. Could ice somewhere have caused this kind of behavior?:confused:

Mine is as bad (its only -9 here lol.)

Mine also has an odd problem, when I finally get it running, the power steering warning light comes on , and the computer says :"Check power steering" , however both the steering works fine and city button workes perfectly, it goes away when I restart the car :-S

Also the idle is very rough, when the car is ticking over, there is a lot of shaking at about 1000rpm which is new to me.

[VilleV]

Also the idle is very rough, when the car is ticking over, there is a lot of shaking at about 1000rpm which is new to me.

How are you managing with this and how long does this rough idle last? And how often does it occure? First time for me so Im a little bit worried...

[ewandougie]

How are you managing with this and how long does this rough idle last? And how often does it occure? First time for me so Im a little bit worried...

I just keep a little pressure on the accelerator about 1200rpm, it generally stops after a few mins (about 2k down the road)

[VilleV]

Car stayed in the garage at work the whole day. Now all warm and dry and troubles seem to have gone, started normally and engine idled smoothly. Still, if anyone has any idea what might have caused the engine idle so rough, I´d would like to know!

[wreckmaster]

Mine is also like this....like it is chasing the rpm a little when idling. But only when it is cold ( -19C today), so it happend this morning. I parked it inside the garage at work today also(20C) and it started fine with a smooth nice idling and sound. :) Suspects the pipe between engine top and air filter has something to do with it tough.....

[ewandougie]

Mine is also like this....like it is chasing the rpm a little when idling. But only when it is cold ( -19C today), so it happend this morning. I parked it inside the garage at work today also(20C) and it started fine with a smooth nice idling and sound. :) Suspects the pipe between engine top and air filter has something to do with it tough.....

It could be down to the car attempting to heat up the catalytic converter ? Some ems systems put more fuel through the system during a cold start to get some temperature into the catalyst on the tailpipe .

[VilleV]

But if the car almost stalls I would think its not getting enough fuel?

[wreckmaster]

It is not almost stalling but is chasing between 700 and 1200 rpm`s:( Better when warm, but not perfect unless in a hot garage. They said at the dealer that it is getting the wrong values because of the broken pipe.

[Cyberdog]

Mine also does this, even when the engine is hot, It feels like it's stalling and the lights even fade a little, then revs up, and repeat.. It even died on me driving in to a petrol station that is covered similar to a parking garage (it's where I wash my car in the winther time.) Held the clutch and were braking, when I was to accellerate again the car was dead. Started it, drove it 10 meters in to the washing booth and it died again. After the wash it started and it hasn't happended since. It was -12 that day, perhaps condensation from the temperature difference outside and inside the petrol station causesd it, still a bit worrying.

I find it a bit annoying, but as it only happens when it is very cold -15 here today I'll just mention it when I take it in for service in march. It normally stays around 0 degrees in winther here in Bergen. Maybe my pipe is broken as well Wreckie?

Very happy about the heated seats these days.. The leather is cold cold cold when you get in the car...

Conclusion: small italian cars does not like cold winther weather..

C

[wreckmaster]

It is very easy to see C! Just look for a hose / pipe that goes from the top of the engine and goes under the airfilter into the base of the airfilter :) When you find this hose look underneeth it for cracks and signs of what looks like melting in the rubber! On mine there is an open crack which is about 1-2cm long and the entire underside is rotten and cracked! Amazing really that they did not discover it when it was on recall last month! Anyway it will be fixed soon :)

[VilleV]

I´m taking my car to the dealer tomorrow to solve this idle problem. Not with very high hopes tho, but they will check if there´s a software update for the ecu.

I´m a bit more worried now that Cyberdogs car does this too. But on the other hand little less worried as it seems to be a feature, not a problem!:mad:

Cyberdogs symptoms are excactly the same as mine!

[VilleV]

Today the car did the same idle problem again, only in a little bit milder form, while I was driving to the dealer. Did not die on me tho! And it took three attempts to get it started, and got the flashing mileage after it started.:icon_rolleyes:

And on the way to the dealer it developed an all new "zak-zak" kind of sound everytime I pressed the throttle. This sound was constant and did not change even if the revs did, but once I got of the throttle it disappeared. Nice.

Well, the dealer installed new software update and I believe this was the one which should help with the coldstart issues. No updates have been installed on my car before. Now I´ll just sit and wait if it´s going to make a change. Tho weather is getting milder now so it might mean end of troubles anyway...for now... "zak-zak" sound still remains though! Got to lo-oove the winter.:frustrated:

[wreckmaster]

Today the car did the same idle problem again, only in a little bit milder form, while I was driving to the dealer. Did not die on me tho! And it took three attempts to get it started, and got the flashing mileage after it started.:icon_rolleyes:

And on the way to the dealer it developed an all new "zak-zak" kind of sound everytime I pressed the throttle. This sound was constant and did not change even if the revs did, but once I got of the throttle it disappeared. Nice.

Well, the dealer installed new software update and I believe this was the one which should help with the coldstart issues. No updates have been installed on my car before. Now I´ll just sit and wait if it´s going to make a change. Tho weather is getting milder now so it might mean end of troubles anyway...for now... "zak-zak" sound still remains though! Got to lo-oove the winter.:frustrated:

the zak-zak sound could it be a stone in the tyre or a bad belt of somekind? Where does the sound come from? Engine? Under car?

[VilleV]

It gomes from the engine bay, not right after start but when I´ve driven the car for a while. And its gaspedal related, since it can only be heard while pressing the pedal. How much I press the gaspedal doesnt matter, the sound remains the same, but if the pedal is fully up there´s no sound. And it doesnt change with the revs. Im thinking it must be something freezing, but I´ll have to keep an eye on it now that the weather is turning warmer. Hard to explain because I dont kow these technical terms in english...:rolleyes:

[VilleV]

I´m thinking this rough idle problem could be happening because some sensor is freezing. If the sensor determening the outside temperature is frozen and tells the car its -17 (or so) but infact the car is already inside in warm place.

Why Im thinking this is because today mine did it again when I drove it inside to a warm garage, but it was ok as long as it stayed out. But once inside the rough idling started again. And why Im thinking it must some sensor freezing is because even though the car was inside for several minutes (5-10min) the outside temperature display kept telling me it still -17. Once the car had stayed inside for about 15 minutes it still said its -11. And looking through the front grille I could see that everything behind it was frozen into white block of ice and snow, including the radiator.

What Im going to try out now is an old winter driving trick. Simply but something in front of the grille to stop icy air and snow getting into the engine bay. It should also keep the engine running on higher temperatures, so more warm air should come into the cabin as well.

What do you good people think of my theory?

[wreckmaster]

I´m thinking this rough idle problem could be happening because some sensor is freezing. If the sensor determening the outside temperature is frozen and tells the car its -17 (or so) but infact the car is already inside in warm place.

Why Im thinking this is because today mine did it again when I drove it inside to a warm garage, but it was ok as long as it stayed out. But once inside the rough idling started again. And why Im thinking it must some sensor freezing is because even though the car was inside for several minutes (5-10min) the outside temperature display kept telling me it still -17. Once the car had stayed inside for about 15 minutes it still said its -11. And looking through the front grille I could see that everything behind it was frozen into white block of ice and snow, including the radiator.

What Im going to try out now is an old winter driving trick. Simply but something in front of the grille to stop icy air and snow getting into the engine bay. It should also keep the engine running on higher temperatures, so more warm air should come into the cabin as well.

What do you good people think of my theory?

It could work Ville! I have actually tought of this on my Bravo myself:) But it should not be nesecarry on a modern car... I asked my garage earlier if I should do this, but they said that I should not have to....

[VilleV]

I dont think modern cars are that good on handling these kind of conditions we´ve been having this winter. People just think they can take anything, and manufacturers, their advertising and dealers let us believe so. What we need to remember is that they are still mechanical devices that are affected by surrounding conditions and in this case extreme cold and ice.
I´m still pretty sure my car, or something in it to be more specific, freezes in these conditions. Maybe its moisture somewhere it shouldnt be. Once its inside and its warm everything is fine again, no rattles, unusual sounds or rough idling, but I cant be sure of that before the weather turns into warmer, its the weather causing these problems or is there something broken. For now I´ve lost some of the confidence I´ve had on my beloved 500 and I must admit Im somewhat worried! I know I´m manic in that way and if there´s something wrong with my car I must get it fixed immediately. I kinda envy those people who can just ignore minor niggles and live with them. Tho Im happy its still under warranty so I can always take it to the dealer to be fixed...

Sorry about me rambling on and on about this, but I´ve had a couple of classes of red wine...:icon_rolleyes:

[.Lefteris.]

.................
Sorry about me rambling on and on about this, but I´ve had a couple of classes of red wine...:icon_rolleyes:
:D

[Cyberdog]

Mine is as bad (its only -9 here lol.)

Mine also has an odd problem, when I finally get it running, the power steering warning light comes on , and the computer says :"Check power steering" , however both the steering works fine and city button workes perfectly, it goes away when I restart the car :-S


That happened to me today as well, the car had been standing in the parking garage all weekend (-18 to -13 here this weekend) and when I started it the Check Power steering came on. Drove for a while, and when I started the car again everything was OK.

C

[VilleV]

My car has started perfectly after the ecu update, even in this really cold weather we´ve been having. Today it was -20 again and the car started like from under a palm tree every time!:icon_thumleft:

Idle is still a bit rough in this extreme cold and the engine bay rattle remains. I´ve been told by me dealers garage that the rattle is normal for Fiats when it´s this cold. It´s supposed to be some kind of "exhaust gas recirculation valve" that makes this noise and it´s just another Fiat feature, not a fault. At some point they even used to isolate/sound proof this valve with Fiat Mareas to silence it!:eek: And the idle that´s going down and the back up again is coused by some sensor freezing. Again supposed to be quite normal... Funny tho, that none of my previous cars didnt have these features!:icon_rolleyes: Oh well, I dont think they have this cold winters in Italy, so what can you really expect. After all, it´s a Fiat...

[wreckmaster]

My car has started perfectly after the ecu update, even in this really cold weather we´ve been having. Today it was -20 again and the car started like from under a palm tree every time!:icon_thumleft:

Idle is still a bit rough in this extreme cold and the engine bay rattle remains. I´ve been told by me dealers garage that the rattle is normal for Fiats when it´s this cold. It´s supposed to be some kind of "exhaust gas recirculation valve" that makes this noise and it´s just another Fiat feature, not a fault. At some point they even used to isolate/sound proof this valve with Fiat Mareas to silence it!:eek: And the idle that´s going down and the back up again is coused by some sensor freezing. Again supposed to be quite normal... Funny tho, that none of my previous cars didnt have these features!:icon_rolleyes: Oh well, I dont think they have this cold winters in Italy, so what can you really expect. After all, it´s a Fiat...

It`s all about the experience my friend:icon_thumleft: The " La dolce vita"lol

[VilleV]

Silly me! Took me almost this long to realise that this "exhaust gas recirculation valve" is the egr...:p Maybe it´s because the mechanic I talked to said it in finnish. It´s much more quiet now that it´s only -5 or so, but I can still hear it ticking. i´ll have to keep an eye on it and report it when my next service comes up in april.

[calie]

What does fiat say abut the cold start prob because we all have sufferd a bit i think :confused:

[VilleV]

Fiat has an ECU update available through dealers that should help cure the problem. Mine has started ok since I had my ECU updated, only once since the update it hasnt started on the first try.